Forever Athlete? Transitioning After Competitive Athletics

The reality of the athlete transition from competitive athletics. In this show we discuss a new study looking at athlete transition experiences and if they're having the impact we think it's having.

ryan@successbeyondgameday.com

www.successbeyondgameday.com

Ryan: Welcome to shift habits, athlete mindset hacks, where we talk everything mindset development, taking lessons from the college and pro athletes, coaches and teams that we get to work alongside. I'm Ryan Schachner. This is Cheney Robinson. Today we're talking about athlete 

[01:03] Cheney: Yeah. Yeah, it is. This is, this is definitely a good one. We, I think we've got a lot of anecdotes to add to this article that, that we're about to introduce that you found. I think. When did it publish? About a month ago.

[01:18] Ryan: I think it was, it's new, right? It's new and it's, it's really good because, you know, these, we've had a lot of these observations working inside athletic departments, talking to the athletes on all the mindset stuff that we do. You know, we've, we've seen it and it doesn't matter the amount of resources you have, resources meaning money and the type of school.

[01:42] Cheney: Right.

[01:43] Ryan: You know, power conferences, again, national champions down to that division three, junior college, NAIA, you name it, they all go through that. Right. So this is going to put some, some data on top of that. But I think we've observed that, you know, once your competitive athletic career. Right. So this is observation and lived experience, but we've 

[02:54] Cheney: Yeah. Well, and that's the livelihood. Right? I mean, that's all, that's kind of ingrained in us from the time we show some, some talent and ability in a particular sport. Right. And I used the word livelihood intentionally. I remember fall ball my freshman year in college and we're in 

[03:51] Ryan: They go into talking about just the demands that college athletics, you know, the athletics and then the academics, because the NCAA limits how much practice time and all that. But we know having lived it, just because the NCAA limits it doesn't mean that's where you stop. You still have to get treated. You're putting in extra work, all that. But between academics and athletics, they're estimating 70 hours a week between the two being devoted by these athletes. Now, I would argue it's more than that, but I believe they're only like, what is it, 160 hours in a week or something like that.

[04:38] Cheney: Yeah. And officially, you only get 20. That's the official of that's team hours that you can. You can't go past 20. So that's why the fun runs. The gym, you know, the time in the weight room, the treatments, all those. That doesn't count towards that 20.

[05:03] Ryan: Well, I remember taking a tour up at University of North Carolina in their football program under the previous regime, and that they were getting ready to face Georgia Tech and they were in that limited practice wind, right? So they had to go through as fast moving music's pumping and all that. Then practice was over. The coaches had to kind of disband. But you had guys like Eric Ebron. Mitch Travicky wasn't the starter at the time, but he was, I believe, a freshman, a true freshman at that point. And they were doing extra passes, they were running routes, and they were working on their own. And that's why I say it doesn't end with, all right, DAA says coaches can't work with us, can't be organized practice, because it's done. If you want to excel and get to that elite level, you're putting in that extra time. And so the amount of time just in college that you're devoting to the athletics, but then we, you know, and that's four, five years, whatever, Covid window or nine, you get 610, whatever it ends up being now. But you rewind a little bit, and now you're in high school, you know, it's about the same amount of time, if not more, and then you rewind a little bit more, and it's, you know, the. The travel teams, it's all those competitive teams leading up to it. And the more and more we start specializing now, we have, with our kids, you know, you got eight and ten 

[07:07] Cheney: Well, and too. And this is gonna be a whole nother podcast. You know, you talked about specialization. You're inevitably getting closer and closer to burnout or injury. Right?

[07:19] Ryan: Yeah.

[07:20] Cheney: And so many times we see these, these young athletes, they just. All right, I've had enough. I know of a young man, and this has been, a handful of years ago, played on two travel little league teams, seven eight year old travel little league teams, and played over 100 games in a summer. And I'm thinking, I never played 100 games in a year. It's something that certainly needs to be addressed. And I know we'll at some point, probably have a podcast about specialization and the impact that that has 100%.

[07:52] Ryan: But. But regardless, is that their identity is this. This athlete? Until one day it's not. Yeah. So one day they have their number. My number was 23, you know, after MJ. And then all of a sudden, one day, somebody else had my number, and I didn't have to wake up and go to practice. I didn't have to do that. And it's just that figuring out, all right, what's next? And almost 100% of these athletes that were in this study said that transition timeline led to feelings of grief, sadness, loss of motivation, depress, you know, depression and symptoms of depression. And. And it. And it's all through that, you know, how they self identify as that, uh, that individual, which we all know because we're on the other side of it, that athlete is something that you do. It's not who you are, but that who you are isn't developed at all through, uh, competitive athletics.

[09:00] Cheney: Well, we've, you know, we've talked to folks, too, and that's a lot of times, that's the. That's the only thing they want to develop.

[09:06] Ryan: You know, depending on situations where they. Where they grow up, it could be their out. Being a professional athlete is the way out of whatever situation they grew up in. And so they devote the time, the 

[11:13] Cheney: Right. Well, and it's. I think it goes to what you say and have said multiple times, it's if, until it's relevant, until it's important to them, it's not real. Right. And they're not going to lean into it and do it and embrace it. Similarly with the guys we worked with for the combine. Right. Majority of those guys did lean in and embrace it and dove right in. Right. And a handful didn't. And I got to think those three or four that didn't, they look 

[12:14] Ryan: Those pros that have those long careers. It's gonna come to an end at some point, and very few of them get the Tom Brady $360 million broadcast contract. They don't get that life changing transition 

[13:30] Cheney: Yeah, well, you mentioned Brady, and I'm, I wonder if, you know, he looks back and says, and reflecting on this new broadcasting deal that he's got, he's like, man, I should have done this sooner. If I hadn't, I could eat whatever I wanted. I'm not getting chased around by huge human beings trying to rip my head off, you know? But at the same time, he had to do the 20 years or however many it was in the NFL to be able to get to that point. So he had to put his time in. Right? He had to put the work in to get to this big, huge life changing broadcast deal. Not that he didn't already have life changing money to begin with, but it's, you've got to go through these experiences. Like you've said in the past two. Experiences drive beliefs and beliefs drive behaviors.

[14:21] Ryan: Your experiences really impact everything, right? And it's not just your experiences that make that impact. And so it's really funny, something that happens inside the brain because we have skills and we 

[19:11] Cheney: Yeah. Yeah.

[19:12] Ryan: You know, how do you do that? And it's not that academic setting.

[19:17] Cheney: Right.

[19:17] Ryan: So how can it be done virtually or inside small amounts of time, so that they can start to again formulate the new stories that they're telling themselves, which are going to change the beliefs and ultimately change the behavior?

[19:34] Cheney: It comes down to two things. And not, we're trying to solve this right now, but it's. It's prioritization and time management, and we. We'd hear that and we would know it. Right. Um, but they're not being taught how to. How to do this. Right. Even. Even me in college didn't have the best GPA, was terrible first semester, and now I'm. I get to determine what I'm doing and where I'm doing it and whatever. Right. So I make sure to go to class and I make sure I'm at practice and that kind of thing, but. All right, so now it's. Am I doing the other stuff outside of those areas that, the 

[21:02] Ryan: Just in that little dialogue you had there, so many things came into mind, and I think one thing that pops into my mind is this is not just a athlete. This is a college student thing.

[21:19] Cheney: Yeah.

[21:20] Ryan: So where do we see evidence of that? You know, I think when we go to college, that's our time, where we figure out who we are, but we're picking a major. And when you look at the data, 70% of individuals that graduate inside a certain discipline or inside a certain majority never get a job that they use, what they went to school for. Right.

[21:48] Cheney: Right.

[21:48] Ryan: And so. And so it's that, oh, okay. I've spent this time, four or five years figuring out who I am and educating myself in a discipline that I never use moving forward. Right. And so, again, it's not just a athlete thing. 

[24:04] Cheney: Well, it's like, how do you. How can you relate to me and the experiences that I've gone through? You can't. Right. There's that disconnect, and I. That's where I think what we're getting to do is to help 

[25:09] Ryan: A lot of times it takes that belief of someone that has walked the steps or a high performer in some kind of capacity. It doesn't have to be, you know, if we're talking about a major league baseball player, you don't have you. The need to be a major league baseball player to deliver the message isn't there, but it's a high performer in some sort of capacity. Right? Because the characteristics, the commitment needed to perform at 

[27:50] Cheney: Yeah. What makes me distinguishable and stand out. And you look at this and you quoted a few of these folks from the study, and this speaks exactly to what we're talking about. There's got to be, we got to peel the onion back a few more layers with the resources that are being 

[29:12] Ryan: We never start stop believing that we are athletes. Like, in my mind, I can still go out and, you know, play baseball. Reality, it's not that. Right. And numerous surgeries later, you know, I've, you know, I know that, but the belief of those characteristics still, you know, hold true. And that's what this said as well, is that they still, you know, almost 99% of these athletes still view themselves as an athlete. Yeah, I think they still maintain athletic qualities and how they live their life and how, you know, how they view competition and all that, you know, that is the athlete right in them. And it's these characteristics and qualities that they already had inside of them that they built and refined through practice, through game experience, through messing up. So. So that when they actually get to, you know, their sport and they can perform or real world, they can perform. And so I think that's the piece, right? It's the practice. It's the application that's missing on a lot of these campuses. And let's just boil it down really simple. Coach teaches you a new skill. You go out and you practice, practice, practice. You mess up, you fail. Until now, all of a sudden, you've mastered the skill. So how do we teach awareness of the existing skill? Have them practice and mess up in a way that isn't going to take a lot of time, that they can feel still part of that athletic community? Maybe they've got partners or a group that they're doing this inside of, that they're practicing, they're failing, they're refining. So that when it's time to step up to, you know, deliver this in a interview or media, you know, it could be a job interview or it could just be media after your game that they perform at the highest level that it's not practice at that point, so they don't have to worry about failing at that point. It's so refined, just like their sports skills, that when they step out on the field, they know they're going to be able to perform.

[31:56] Cheney: Yeah. Well, I think John Maxwell talks about this quite a bit. And I think most leader leadership coaches will have their own kind of version of, you do it, you evaluate it, you fix it and you do it again, and then you repeat that process and you just keep, you keep doing that. I remember I had a whole, had a coach years and years ago, and I remember saying something about practice makes perfect. And he corrected me. He corrected me. He said, practice makes perfect is, it is a good thing, but you're missing something there because if you're practicing the wrong thing right, then you're making perfect the wrong thing. So it's perfect. Practice makes perfect. And I think that's where the intentionality is. Okay, we got to one know, okay, what is this that I'm trying to accomplish and then how do I need to get there? And then step by step, little by little, I've got to, I've got to do this and build on that and build on that. Because again, a lot of times it's breaking habits, right? Because we've got our comfort zone, we got our routine, we got the things that we do that just so come so naturally. As you've already alluded to, there are so many things just as high performing athletes, and I'm not putting myself in that category, but those high performing athletes, they just do things Subcon, they just subconsciously done right there. I mean, they're doing it without even knowing they're doing it. It's just because it's natural.

[33:34] Ryan: But now we're, that's become natural because of the, of the practice aspect, because of the practice.

[33:40] Cheney: And that's where what I think what we're able to do in the mindset, these attributes that we're talking about in coaching and 

[34:21] Ryan: Yeah. You know, so the next point that this article makes is talking about some of the psychological effects. Right. The mental health aspect. And again, 99% of these kids and these athletes in the study were saying, hey, something is needed here, and I'd like to dive in a little bit more about what we mean on. I'm an individual that plays a sport, you know, I'm an versus a sport player. Right. And what that actually means. So to me, you know, it's the whole, if we can really define more the. I'm using athletics versus having athletics use me. And which we hear a lot. We talk to, you know, these pro athletes, and it's. It's. To me, it's how are you using your skills athletically and the opportunity and platform that you have to create for that life after and so years. Yeah. Yeah. So it starts with really understanding. You can't do that unless you understand who you are, 

[39:48] Cheney: No, you're exactly right. And one of the. You, I want to add to that, that the, the coach had the, the conversation with his former athlete, and basically it was like, don't screw this up. You better, you better go knock this out of the park. And again, the guy ended up being first in the. He graduated first in the law class, right. So, you know, he was highly motivated. He knew what he wanted to do. I had a college roommate, 

[40:45] Ryan: Yep. And I think what they're like. Yes.

[40:50] Cheney: Yeah.

[40:50] Ryan: And then I think the earlier that, that these athletes can identify again who they are and use the sport to get what they ultimately want, that's, that's really the key to this. Right. And so that's really how this study wraps up. And it's saying, hey, there's some things that we really need to. To figure out to change, to improve the transition experience. And it hits on a lot of the stuff that we talked about. Right. So it's identifying as early as possible who they are outside of sport, again, changing that belief system so that they start behaving differently and making those relationships and being that athlete that now knows why I need to perform good on the field or on the court, because it's going to help me accomplish these other things. Right. So it's not necessarily taking away from their performance athletically, it's enhancing their performance athletically and then giving them the space to practice and create community so that they can have those mentorship or that support group as they advance on through life. And community doesn't always mean, I'm a football player, I need to just do this with football players. It's, hey, I'm a football player. I need to maybe, you know, someone that's really going to help me is a former track athlete or a current track athlete. And so it's cross pollinating between sports. And I know it's difficult to do, especially at the high levels where it's all about isolation. Right. The football team has their own village on campus that they live and operate in the. But it's this cross pollination among all athletes, all sports, so that we can start, you know, at the end of the day, creating more successful transitions after that competitive athletic career is done, but also create that student athlete experience that ultimately draws these athletes back to campus donations, you know, the lifeblood of a lot of these athletic programs. Universities.

[43:05] Cheney: Well, and then it talks as you talk about that, the, what's next? And helping these athletes be able to make these connections. And those are very, very important. I mean, you, for example, you're a perfect example, right, where baseball ended abruptly for you and then you had to 

[44:03] Ryan: Yeah. That was, you know, that was my mindset, the athlete mindset. Right. Going into it. But I still faced the, who am I? You know, I got into the financial services right after athletics, and it was more of a default. This is the one thing that I can actually get an interview and get accepted into. Yeah. And I leveraged some relationships through baseball, you know, that I, to get that. But it was, it was still like this. I guarantee had I had a program that fully developed who I was, I would have treated baseball differently. And I may have played at a different school and taken that, you know, not needed to play right away to make it to that next level. I may have gone to a different university and sat for a couple of years and really utilized the opportunity and the platform that I could have gotten on. We come to a close on this show. Thank you again for joining us on shift happens. I'm Ryan. This is Cheney. And we'll see you next time.